BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  You think you have it bad Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message William Bates Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: You think you have it bad The C++ Builder newsgroup is not doing much traffic lately, so I thought I'd look at what is happening to Delphi ng - the next release of Builder will be in the same package as Delphi. About a dozen posts ago, a question was raised about the fixes demanded in next upgrade. All I can say is if the D2005 is so unusable then pity anyone that is looking at C++ using the same IDE. - Memory-Manager problems ... - Faster IDE .. this had better be fixed, MS really have shown you how to do it. For C++ the intellihelp in Builder has always been useless. I have been using MS VS, and I cannot emphasis how important this is. -zlib 1.2.3 support .. Dunno about this, it looks as though it is on the way to being fixed, but honestly, 3 patches and there is still glaring problems - come on. -what QC's ... This is the big problem, the Builder C++ language implementation is woeful. Boreland were the premium language experts 10 years ago, but time and others have past them by (Comeau MS GCC et al) And on top of a new release we will have to endure either 3 or four bug fixes (the best option), or buy another version and hope the bugs have been fixed. Don't believe me, see C++ V6 problems which were highlighted in V5. If the big corporate developers are loosing patience, and the small shops are loosing patience then what hope Borland. There is one last point I would like to make. I have written may apps in Delphi so I know the language moderately well. I prefer C++ for many reasons, but most notably is that I just like the language - its terse and elegant (and I dont have to hold the shift button down when I type an assignment ( x := y ) - . I have been using MS VS for the last 12+ months, and I *like* C#. Back to top David Smith Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad William Bates wrote: Quote: There is one last point I would like to make. I have written may apps in Delphi so I know the language moderately well. I prefer C++ for many reasons, but most notably is that I just like the language - its terse and elegant Hah! I'll give you terse (though it's not a good feature for the readers of your code) but elegant?!? What are you on? By all means prefer C++, but it's quite useless to come here preaching about elegance. We are Delphi users and you really can't get much more elegant than that. -- David S. Delphi programming : http://www.borland.com/delphi/ Back to top Peter Morris [Droopy eyes Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Quote: - Memory-Manager problems ... It has been publically stated that DeXter will have a better memory manager. Quote: - Faster IDE Borland have said that quality is a big focus for them in the next release. Hopefully the slow parts will be identified and fixed, I would imagine that a better memory manager would help indirectly. Quote: -zlib 1.2.3 support I haven't seen anything mentioned about this, but why can't you download zlib and use it yourself? Isn't that possible or something? Quote: -what QC's ... This is the big problem, the Builder C++ language implementation is woeful. Boreland were the premium language experts 10 years ago, but time and others have past them by (Comeau MS GCC et al) I don't see the link between QC and the C++B language. Anyway, I haven't seen Borland say anything publically about modifying the language, but then I may have seen something said and forgotten about it on account that I don't care :-) Quote: And on top of a new release we will have to endure either 3 or four bug fixes (the best option), or buy another version and hope the bugs have been fixed. Don't believe me, see C++ V6 problems which were highlighted in V5. You don't have to buy + hope, that is what 30 day trials are for. Within 30 days I would imagine you could upgrade your app into D2006 and see if it meets your needs or not. Then you can make an informed decision, which is exactly how business decisions should be made. Quote: and elegant (and I dont have to hold the shift button down when I type an assignment ( x := y ) - . But you still have to hold it down for not-equal testing. There are things I like and dislike about both languages, but I don't suppose anyone cares what my preferences are any more than I care what yours are ;-) Quote: I have been using MS VS for the last 12+ months, and I *like* C#. *like* = really really like or *like* = like but don't love I really like C#, in fact it is my preferred language now. I just wish there was an easy way to navigate the code as there is in OPascal. I ctrl+up to see an overview of the class + methods (interface section) then ctrl+down to see the implementation detail. That's really nice and I miss it. -- Pete ==== ECO Modeler, Audio compression components, DIB graphics controls, FastStrings http://www.droopyeyes.com Read or write articles on just about anything http://www.HowToDoThings.com My blog http://blogs.slcdug.org/petermorris/ Back to top Jonathan Neve Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software] wrote: Quote: and elegant (and I dont have to hold the shift button down when I type an assignment ( x := y ) - . But you still have to hold it down for not-equal testing. There are things I like and dislike about both languages, but I don't suppose anyone cares what my preferences are any more than I care what yours are I don't have to hold the Shift key down in either case, because I'm using a French keyboard. <g> Jonathan Neve. Back to top Guenther Wimpassinger Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad "Jonathan Neve" <jonathan (AT) microtec (DOT) fr> schrieb Quote: I don't have to hold the Shift key down in either case, because I'm using a French keyboard. You are a lucky man. I have to hold down the shift-key for most of the operations except plus + and minus - or i have to use the num. keyboard. = on 0 ( on 8 ) on 9 [ alt-gr 8 ] alt-gr 9 : on . Quote: on < (but I think that is on the majority of keybrd layouts) ' on # @ alt-gr Q if using c/java { alt-gr 7 } alt-gr 0 ! alt-gr 1 " on 2 german keyboard layout. very bad for programming. ps. on means hold the shift-key bye Guenther Back to top Martin Waldenburg Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad William Bates wrote: Quote: terse and elegant Troll. Quote: I have been using MS VS Continue doing so and stop trolling here. Martin Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad At 18:21:10, 25.07.2005, Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software] wrote: Quote: - Memory-Manager problems ... It has been publically stated that DeXter will have a better memory manager. Actually, they mentioned a new one, but it is probably safe to assume that it is supposed to be a better one. <g> -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de "I have yet to meet a C compiler that is more friendly and easier to use than eating soup with a knife." -- unknown Back to top Paul Gustavson Guest Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad "William Bates" <WilliamBates (AT) NOSPAM (DOT) com.au> wrote... Quote: All I can say is if the D2005 is so unusable then pity anyone that is looking at C++ using the same IDE. C++Builder won't be using the "same IDE" as D2005. Both Delphi, C#, and C++ developers will benefit from the "next IDE" - aka DeXter. Quote: And on top of a new release we will have to endure either 3 or four bug fixes (the best option), or buy another version and hope the bugs have been fixed. Don't believe me, see C++ V6 problems which were highlighted in V5. Those beta-testing DeXter I'm sure are ringing and will continue to the ring the bell loudly of any known bugs in D2005 that are still manifested in DeXter. Quote: If the big corporate developers are loosing patience, and the small shops are loosing patience then what hope Borland. Most people favor a Microsoft alternative. While there may have been some struggles, I don't think anyone questions Borland's ability (based on past history) to compete in the tools market. We want some one other than Microsoft to succed. However, that said, we are still axious to see the quality of the product that they will produce. Quote: There is one last point I would like to make. I have written may apps in Delphi so I know the language moderately well. I prefer C++ for many reasons, but most notably is that I just like the language - its terse and elegant (and I dont have to hold the shift button down when I type an assignment ( x := y ) - . I have been using MS VS for the last 12+ months, and I *like* C#. But it sould like you still would like to do things in C++Builder. Back to top William Bates Guest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Paul Gustavson wrote: Quote: C++Builder won't be using the "same IDE" as D2005. Both Delphi, C#, and C++ developers will benefit from the "next IDE" - aka DeXter. I wasn't aware of this, I really should keep on top of what Borland are doing. Quote: But it sould like you still would like to do things in C++Builder. Yes, although I have been using MS VS for the last 12 months or so, deep down, I would like to have a Borland product. The C# language is fine, and the MS IDE is OK (code folding - which I know is in D2005, intellisense and the general IDE layout are very good) as is many of the third party components. The thing however is that it still is taking me longer to complete a app than Borland's C++, and I don't think it is because I am not as familiar with the language - flipping between the form layout and the code is a PITA. The original post was not meant as a troll, more of a hope that Borland will continue to have an extended life. Back to top Mike Vance Guest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad As a Delphi advocate and user, and can say that indeed there are certain elements of elegance to the C++ syntax. The "return()" keyword is superior to Delphi's "result" variable. Strings should be deliminated by double-quotes, not single quotes. Delphi has more elegances overall, however. Quote: elegant?!? What are you on? Back to top Mike Vance Guest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Blatant insecurity. I can post a message in the MS forums talking about the virtues of Delphi, and still not be accused of being a troll. Quote: Troll. I have been using MS VS Continue doing so and stop trolling here. Martin Back to top Mike Vance Guest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Delphi32 and BCB users had to completely skiped Delphi 8. With Delphi2005 most Delphi32 users still did not upgrade because of quality issues. I have a feeling Delphi2006 is going to be a real winner -- providing the quality issues are resolved. Back to top Dave Nottage [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Mike Vance wrote: Quote: "return()" keyword is superior to Delphi's "result" variable. I'm curious as to why. IMNSHO it's completely the reverse, mainly because Result can be altered. Quote: Strings should be deliminated by double-quotes, not single quotes. Seem more a case of convention, than elegance, however I'd agree on that one. -- Dave Nottage [TeamB] Back to top Kyle A. Miller Guest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software] wrote: Quote: I really like C#, in fact it is my preferred language now. I just wish there was an easy way to navigate the code as there is in OPascal. I ctrl+up to see an overview of the class + methods (interface section) then ctrl+down to see the implementation detail. That's really nice and I miss it. You are always welcomed to come back. Back to top Arthur Hoornweg Guest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: You think you have it bad Dave Nottage [TeamB] schreef: Quote: I'm curious as to why. IMNSHO it's completely the reverse, mainly because Result can be altered. result=5; return(result); -- Arthur Hoornweg (In order to reply per e-mail, please just remove the ".net" from my e-mail address. Leave the rest of the address intact including the "antispam" part. I had to take this measure to counteract unsollicited mail.) 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