BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Your experiences with BCB 2006? Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 15, 16, 17  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Randall Parker Guest Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Your experiences with BCB 2006? I'm curious now that BCB 2006 has been out long enough for people to log some mileage with it for those who have been using it what are your impressions? Notice anything different about the compiler? Fewer linker bugs? Debugger any better? CodeGuard work okay? Code completion fast? Any annoying bugs fixed? Any annoying bugs still there? Any new bugs? How fast is the IDE? Are project settings any easier to deal with setting? Any support for multiple build configurations in a single project? Say with and without CodeGuard? (my most used two variations) Any other impressions? Back to top David Dean Guest Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? In article <43ef9674$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, Randall Parker <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Notice anything different about the compiler? I see fewer Internal Compiler Errors, and there are some nice bug fixes. More than 200 in just the compiler area alone. Quote: Fewer linker bugs? The linker problems that I have encountered have been very easy to work around. Usually just adding a library to the project file directly fixes the directory settings. Quote: Debugger any better? A great new feature lets you dig deeper into watches and fly over evaluations. A plus sign appears, and you can click on it to get into the internals of a class. Quote: CodeGuard work okay? It appears to be basically the same. Quote: Code completion fast? Yes. Quote: Any annoying bugs fixed? A lot, but the one that used to bite me all the time that is fixed, is the file opening in two edit buffers bug that was fixed. Quote: Any annoying bugs still there? Several long standing compiler bugs, but these appear to be on Borland's radar to be fixed. Quote: Any new bugs? Aren't there always? <http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?search=1&stat=40+OR+10&type=B+OR+A+ OR+D+OR+C&proj=15&vers=10.0> or: <http://tinyurl.com/cdfrk> Quote: How fast is the IDE? Are project settings any easier to deal with setting? IMO, both of these are about the same as BCB6. Quote: Any support for multiple build configurations in a single project? Say with and without CodeGuard? (my most used two variations) Yes, Build Configurations are one of the new features that is pretty good. Quote: Any other impressions? IMO, the best BCB ever. -- -David Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione. Back to top David Intersimone \"David Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? "Randall Parker" <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote in message news:43ef9674$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: I'm curious now that BCB 2006 has been out long enough for people to log some mileage with it for those who have been using it what are your impressions? Don't for get to check out John kaster's bug fix report for BCB http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,33338,00.html C++Builder QC resolutions 77 published resolutions 1351 total resolutions 1428 Query for all C++ resolved on build http://qc.borland.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?search=1&proj=15&rib=10.0. gives 1516 resolutions - post Update #1 Back to top Tom Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? If you use C++ Builder, to me this is a no brainer upgrade. Updated VCL, webservices, awesome IDE, support for Delphi, Delphi.NET and C# with C++ Builder. -Tom "Randall Parker" <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote in message news:43ef9674$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: I'm curious now that BCB 2006 has been out long enough for people to log some mileage with it for those who have been using it what are your impressions? Notice anything different about the compiler? Fewer linker bugs? Debugger any better? CodeGuard work okay? Code completion fast? Any annoying bugs fixed? Any annoying bugs still there? Any new bugs? How fast is the IDE? Are project settings any easier to deal with setting? Any support for multiple build configurations in a single project? Say with and without CodeGuard? (my most used two variations) Any other impressions? Back to top Martin Hart Turner Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? Randal: Overall I'm very disappointed with the new version. Let me elaborate a little. Just over 2 years ago, we took the decision to move future development to .Net, and after trying C#Builder 1.0, we came to the conclusion that this was not a serious programming environment, with far too many bugs and quirks, so we went with VS2003 (and more recently VS2005). In the last 2 years I can only say we are delighted with its productivity and ease of use. No hangs and *very* robust IDE. As we have *many* BCB projects we need to provide legacy support and even enhancements so we took the decision to upgrade to BDS2006. The IDE is, in general, much better than BCB5/6, but sincerely I was expecting more, maybe because I have been spoilt with VS2005. For example: - Refactoring is non existent (only Rename!). - Code folding is only just implemented, just has it's own mind and fully expands when it feels like it. - The background of a DataModule does not repaint when you move components about on it's surface. This is of no consequence at all, but does show a lack to attention to detail. - The IDE is still as unstable as it's most unstable package. They don't seem to have been able to isolate the packages exceptions from the IDE, giving the impression that the IDE is unstable (which it's not). I don't know, technically, how difficult it is to isolate this sort of error, but Visual Studio seems to have cracked it. - Thanks to a 3rd party plugin, the compilers for all C++Builder versions are now lightning fast, what a shame Borland haven't paid this amount of attention to sorting a chronic problem that has persisted for years! - Code Template expansion is a disaster. It won't expand with Ctrl-J depending where you are on a line of code. I used to use this alot. - Having being launched after NET 2, it's a shame VCL.NET does not recognize and take advantage of it's new possibilities. (Okay, I know I have wandered off course and are now speaking about Delphi!) - The worst thing about the new IDE id the Object Browser window. It has it's own mind and does exactly what *it* wants to do, and not what *I* want it to do. The width of the slideout window is virtually random and changes at will, sometime occupying the whole screen. Other times it will slide closed while I'm writing to one of it's properties contents. The vertical separation line will change width practically every time the window slides open. This a real pain in the *&%$.* and again a lack of attention to detail. On the plus side, it's more stable and I think it's quicker than previous versions of BCB. Code completion is great and pretty quick. Compatibility with previous versions is very good also. The debug tooltip drilldown is a nice feature (I got used to this under VS) I'm anxiously awaiting a service pack to address some of these issues, which is a bit of a shame as the product has just been released!! Just my 2 cents worth... MartinH. Randall Parker escribió: Quote: I'm curious now that BCB 2006 has been out long enough for people to log some mileage with it for those who have been using it what are your impressions? Notice anything different about the compiler? Fewer linker bugs? Debugger any better? CodeGuard work okay? Code completion fast? Any annoying bugs fixed? Any annoying bugs still there? Any new bugs? How fast is the IDE? Are project settings any easier to deal with setting? Any support for multiple build configurations in a single project? Say with and without CodeGuard? (my most used two variations) Any other impressions? Back to top Andrue Cope [TeamB] Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? Randall Parker wrote: Quote: I'm curious now that BCB 2006 has been out long enough for people to log some mileage with it for those who have been using it what are your impressions? The IDE is excellent. Far more stable than BCB6 and no need to be careful what you do with it. The compiler is better but not yet perfect and I'm concerned about several bugs relating to 64 bit integers. I have one linkage problem that makes it hard to create our static run time library. I have a potential issue with long include paths directives. The debugger is great with several new useability fixes. I'm not quite 'there' yet but I think anyone that normally uses run time packages will have no complaints and should upgrade immediately. -- Andrue Cope [TeamB] [Bicester, Uk] http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html Back to top Doychin Bondzhev Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? Usually after such post there will be someone who will tell you to put all these complaints into QC with proper steps to reproduce in order to see them fixed or at least to have a chance to be fixed in the Update that is coming. From what we already know from roadmap .NET 2.0 support is coming with Highlander. I'm sure that the IDE and more specifically C++ personality will have more enchantments in the next release. Doychin Bondzhev doychin@dsoft-bg.com Back to top Mike Margerum Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? IMHO visual slickedit blows both vstudio and BCB for editing, code navigating, refactoring, etc Slickedit will even open a vstudio project file directly. I really only go into VStudio and BCB to compile and to edit resources or forms. Martin Hart Turner wrote: Back to top Edward Diener Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? Tom wrote: Quote: If you use C++ Builder, to me this is a no brainer upgrade. Updated VCL, webservices, awesome IDE, support for Delphi, Delphi.NET and C# with C++ Builder. Some people actually care about the C++ compiler, bugs being fixed, compatibility with the C++ standard. Although progress was made in this area from what I have heard, the fact that many very basic outstanding bugs from 3-5 years ago are still not fixed in C++ Builder 2006, and that the compliance with the C++ standard is still well below what it should be ( 98%+ ), means it is a no-brainer for some not to upgrade. Back to top David Dean Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? In article <43f0c43b$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, Edward Diener <eddielee_no_spam_here (AT) tropicsoft (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Although progress was made in this area from what I have heard, the fact that many very basic outstanding bugs from 3-5 years ago are still not fixed in C++ Builder 2006, and that the compliance with the C++ standard is still well below what it should be ( 98%+ ), means it is a no-brainer for some not to upgrade. It sure beats BCB 3-6 though. I cannot imagine any reason to stick with those instead of upgrading to BCB2006. What version of BCB are you using that is better than 2006? -- -David Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione. Back to top David Dean Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? In article <43f0e5ee$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, "Duane Hebert" <spoo (AT) flarn (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: There are other choices David. Sure there are. I use Comeau, Xcode, Code Warrior, and gcc , but I don't see any of them as better (overall) than BCB. And If I wasn't using BCB, I wouldn't spend my time in the newsgroups complaining about it. -- -David Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione. Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? "David Dean" <ozchzhq02 (AT) sneakemail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-542D6C.14405213022006 (AT) frylock (DOT) local... Quote: In article <43f0c43b$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, Edward Diener <eddielee_no_spam_here (AT) tropicsoft (DOT) com> wrote: Although progress was made in this area from what I have heard, the fact that many very basic outstanding bugs from 3-5 years ago are still not fixed in C++ Builder 2006, and that the compliance with the C++ standard is still well below what it should be ( 98%+ ), means it is a no-brainer for some not to upgrade. It sure beats BCB 3-6 though. I cannot imagine any reason to stick with those instead of upgrading to BCB2006. What version of BCB are you using that is better than 2006? There are other choices David. Back to top Edward Diener Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? David Dean wrote: Quote: In article <43f0c43b$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, Edward Diener <eddielee_no_spam_here (AT) tropicsoft (DOT) com> wrote: Although progress was made in this area from what I have heard, the fact that many very basic outstanding bugs from 3-5 years ago are still not fixed in C++ Builder 2006, and that the compliance with the C++ standard is still well below what it should be ( 98%+ ), means it is a no-brainer for some not to upgrade. It sure beats BCB 3-6 though. I cannot imagine any reason to stick with those instead of upgrading to BCB2006. What version of BCB are you using that is better than 2006? What does BCB2006 but me that BCB6 does not have except for a smoother IDE. Since I already know the bugs in the BCB6, having reported a number of those myself, what great value does BCB2006 have for me that I should pay Borland $500 or so for an upgrade ? To reward them for not doing what any decent company would have done regarding their outstanding compiler bugs ? No, I do not think so. Also, unless you are living in a C++ shell, you must know that VS Studio 2005 is out and it is a very good environment for either straight C++ programming and of course for ..NET C++/CLI programming, with a highly compliant C++ compiler. What Borland had in the past, and I congratulate them for it, was a wonderful RAD environment for Windows programming, which really did outshine MFC no matter how many more C++ programmers chose to program with MFC rather than C++ Builder and the VCL. Borland still has the VCL, but so does MS have their RAD programming environment in Visual Studio 2005 now and .NET is much richer than the BCB VCL currently is. While Borland has pushed Delphi forward as a RAD development environmnent, they have held C++ back and are now far behind MS. The C++ compiler bugs were always much more of a headache for me than the IDE bugs, although the latter were often annoying. If the C++ compiler bugs had all been fixed, and compliance to the standard greatly improved, then maybe the $500 would have been worth it as a means of continuing to do VCL programming. Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? "David Dean" <ozchzhq02 (AT) sneakemail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:ozchzhq02-C4A403.15260013022006 (AT) frylock (DOT) local... Quote: In article <43f0e5ee$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, "Duane Hebert" <spoo (AT) flarn (DOT) com> wrote: There are other choices David. Sure there are. I use Comeau, Xcode, Code Warrior, and gcc , but I don't see any of them as better (overall) than BCB. And If I wasn't using BCB, I wouldn't spend my time in the newsgroups complaining about it. Who's complaining? This is a thread about Borland making their product better. If someone says that it needs to be more compliant, faster or whatever, jumping in with "Which BCB is better than this one?" doesn't add much does it? Branding people with other opinions as complainers doesn't add much either. David I. and the other Borland people around here can get an idea of where to go with this product based on posts here. To some of us, a better compliance rating is important. Some of us are being forced to competitors because of compliance, lack or cross platform support and other things. Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:03 am    Post subject: Re: Your experiences with BCB 2006? Mike, VSE continues to be my major editor as well. Currently I'm working part of the time at a site where I can't use VSE and where I have to use MS VS 2003. That tool has a lot to say for itself and MS certainly has made some big strides with their IDE. But VSE is still better for just plain editing. But when I'm doing C# at home with VS 2003 I do most of my C# in VSE. Also, I do about 95% of my BCB v6 editing in VSE. I'm still intending to upgrade BCB though. The other advantages seem well worth it. I couldn't upgrade initially though since I use so many 3rd party libs and have had to wait for them all to release patches to get compliant with BDS 2006. As for the complaints about C++ compliance: Certainly I want it. But that did improve some as did lots of bug fixes across the board. I'm not going to let my frustration with Borland prevent me from using an improved version. Mike Margerum wrote: Quote: IMHO visual slickedit blows both vstudio and BCB for editing, code navigating, refactoring, etc Slickedit will even open a vstudio project file directly. I really only go into VStudio and BCB to compile and to edit resources or forms. 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